Isn't the individual the one with the right to free exercise? If the church has to allow free exercise for its employees to get BC or not with no financial penealty for working for a church body, isn't that a good thing for personal freedom?
Max Divergent
JoinedPosts by Max Divergent
-
40
California Supreme Court and Religious Freedom
by Yerusalyim in.
monday the california supreme court ruled that private religious charities with employees must offer birth control along with their medical prescription benefits, even though doing so violates religious principle.
comments on free exercise?
-
-
-
14
Media Bias?????
by Yerusalyim ininteresting ap stories and their headlines yesterday.
notice that in the story on kerry, the headline is, "kerry calls for deeper tax cuts for the middle class" in the article i've highlighted the real news of that story.
which is that he said the gop was the most crooked lying group he's ever seen.
-
-
Max Divergent
If it's gotta be GOP, then Condi Rice for Prez, Powell for VP!!! There's some brain power there at least.
Otherwise, AP better get their finger out and get a lot more 'biased' than this!!
When Bush talks, it's like he's just repeating what he hears in the ear piece, the inflection and tone has a pattern to it that is too often misplaced for the use of words... it's like they're not his words and he's just repeating sounds.
When the Fl numbers were coming in for Bush, I was wondering how bad the world would get in the next four years with bad decisions being made at the top with a man of the people's level at the helm, you need someone with more quals or more brains than me as Prez (I've got more of both than George, and I'm a teacher)... if Gore was Prez, the world would be different. I think less bad. This is a dangerous admin. Most of them scare me and for good reason.
This is a bad, bad administration IMO, and to slight them is to be biased toward them. They need to be savaged.
Max
-
66
Visit From Elders
by laurelin init's been awhile since i've been on here.
due to death in the family, chicken pox in children and other nasty things.. i posted here awhile ago about things i had found the unsettled me.
i was due to have a visit from two elders and a lot of you gave me lots of help and encouragement.. well, the two elders visited and i have to admit that it was nothing like i expected.. they sat down, and told me straight away that there was nothing i could say or ask that would hurt me.
-
-
Max Divergent
Hi - I've had similar elder experiences, really it was only the existance of a few guys like that (1:50? 1:100? 1:1000?) that enabled me to stay for as long as I did (bastards :-). They are usually a minority on a circut and generally get picked on by the other less liberal elders.
IMO, their righteous stubborness or kindness to the long suffering flock (or whatever) that allows them to put up with the rest of the elders also stops them from leaving the WTS.
Incidently, most of those guys have been English, well educated, and born before about 1945.
Max
-
72
SUGGESTED LETTER CAMPAIGN TO GET THE UN TO RELEASE THE WTS FILE
by hawkaw inthe pertinent information dealt with confirmation that a ngo by the name of the watchtower bible and tract society of new york , inc. (watchtower) held an ?associated ngo?
this may not seem as an important issue to the united nations.
1) a photocopy of the original 1991 letter from the watchtower to the dpi requesting an application form for ?associate ngo?
-
-
-
6
Dating rules for the mature jw. What are they?
by topcat ini'm just curious.
i am not a jw, nor do i ever plan on becoming one, however, after reading some posts regarding dating i was wondering how couples who are say 40+ handle it.
if either had been married previously and were now single again how does one begin dating when there appears to be so much control?
-
-
Max Divergent
I mean seriously, do they actually have to have a chaperone?
Yep! Age makes no difference. Maybe they might just get away with a little more than teenagers, but that'd be a local/individual thing. Chances are they'd be on exactly the same footing.
Just being seen to have been alone in a house, regardless of how long, is a big problem... If it was overnight, it'd be deemed they had sex.
And who's to say if they do go out alone or on a trip together if they both agree to do it secretly? Would someone actually squeal on them if found out?
Assuming were talking normal loyal consciencious JW's who 'fear being disloyal to Jehovah'? ... Well, that just dosn't happen, either going away together or agreeing to a sinful secret like that.
And yes, they'd be squeeled in a heartbeat. It'd be a big local scandle. Just the suggestion of going away or keeping the secret would be big trouble.
Also, if they can't actually date whomever , whenever, without the intent of marriage, what happens if it doesn't work out with the first person? Are they counselled to make it work?
They are supposed to get to know each other well in group/congregational settings before dating. If they get a reputation for being frivilous (sp?) regarding the feelings of the opposite sex (yes, they talk like that), they'll be counselled for sure. But it's not like, one date = engagement or anything that extreme.
And yea, what about the sex? Can you really stop a mature relationship from going there?
Yes you can ... aparently!! They're really strict on all that regardless of age. That's where all the other rules come from. It's assumed that older non-virgins have done it all before, so may not have as much of a mental barrier to having sex than younger people might.
Also, is there any time frame concerning how long you should date before you become engaged? married?
No, but the assumption is that the longer it goes on the more likley you are to be overtaken by passion and 'fall into sin'... better to get a move on... Also, if it's taking a long time maybe there's no intent for marriage on one party which is holding up the other party and other singles (they think and talk like that)... but there are no formal timelimits.
Still, if there are no 'special curculmstances'... from meeting to being married... 6-9 months isn't rare, <18 months is common, and more than 3 years is a little unusual. 5 or 6 years would be a novelty.
I apologize if I sound too curious , but it is really hard for me to understand it all.
You'll find a lot of macarbe curiosity here... mosty from people (like me) who can't understand it all now... even though they grew up with it all being 'inculcated into their hearts' :-)
Cheers, Max
-
17
Could a JW pharmacist give out the morning after pill?
by Atilla inthis subject came to mind a few days ago when a saw a news article about a pharmacist working at a eckerd drug store in texas.
a woman came in for the morning after pill but the pharmacist who was very religious-not a dub-went in the back of the store and prayed about his situation.
he says that god told him that this wasn't ok, so he along with the other two pharmacists refused to give the pills to the woman.
-
-
Max Divergent
Yes they could. The JW's are strict, but not that obsessive.
For the everyday shopping mall or hospital pharmisist, it's incidental to their main work and does not imply to the public that they condone that particular medication. It'd be different if they were the parmacist for an abortion clinic where they are linked to the 'sin' directly and publicly.
In the same way, a JW doctor can order a blood transfusion, and a nurse can administer one - there was an article some years ago on that - but, it'd be different if they worked for a blood bank and transusion related work was their 'bread & butter' as they'd be seen to condone the 'ungodly' practices of 'sinners'.
If they were making these things thier main business, they would have to quit either the job or the JW's.
Max
(R rated video's - sure, but not from an adult bookstore; Condoms? Giving them to your unmarried children may get you in strife though...)
-
25
We just surpassed the 1,000,000 post mark
by xjw_b12 in.
forum statistics:
congratulations simon and angie..
-
-
Max Divergent
Congrats... but what was this post of Amazing a few weeks ago if not the millionth post??? There were some self-congratulory posts back then too... or is this the millionth in 'Friends' and that was the millionth overall?
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/64807/1000000/post.ashx#1000000
I'm confused...
Max
-
2
Open Letter to JW's on Anti-Religion web site
by Max Divergent insome others have posted about this strong anti-religion (spoof?
) site in other posts, but it seems that the jw reaction is so strong (to the suggested 'ban religion' resolution at the un) as to prompt the author to post an open letter to jw's in the news page that starts like this www.formulism.org/news.html.
actually, the whole site reads like it's designed to hook jw's... open letter to jehovah's witnesses - 1st feb 04. over the past few days i have received literally dozens of e-mails from jehovah's witnesses.
-
-
Max Divergent
Some others have posted about this strong anti-religion (spoof?) site in other posts, but it seems that the JW reaction is so strong (to the suggested 'Ban Religion' resolution at the UN) as to prompt the author to post an Open Letter to JW's in the News page that starts like this www.formulism.org/news.html
Actually, the whole site reads like it's designed to hook JW's...
Open letter to Jehovah's Witnesses - 1st Feb 04
Over the past few days I have received literally dozens of e-mails from Jehovah's Witnesses. I apologise for not having had the time to reply to every message personally and hope that this open letter will answer the majority of issues raised.It seems that there are many similarities between Formulists and Jehovah's Witnesses, including our political neutrality, pacifism, rejection of nationalism and respect for the unborn. Whilst I concede that Jehovah's Witnesses do not engage in many of the things that make most religions so destructive, it would be impossible to isolate a single religion without appearing to endorse it. Besides, the existence of a relatively small sect, however seemingly blameless, cannot justify the existence of religion in general.
... and it goes on... the link is www.formulism.org/news.html
Take care, Max
-
15
SOMETHING VERY STRANGE?
by link ina number of threads have been started recently on the call by someone known as anthony last, at his web site www.formulisn.org, to end organised religion.
his proposal to the united nations is dated 27 jan. most of the u.s.a. is several hours behind europe due to differences in time zones.. how is it then that j.w.s throughout europe were swapping the story via e-mail, under various extreme headings like "the time of the end", on 27 january.
i got one from the north of england and one from southern spain.
-
-
Max Divergent
This link works better: http://www.formulism.org/index.html
Well, to be a Formulist you adhere to a formula; some of the things you won't do are celebrate christmas, join the military and get involved in politics.... sound familier?
A comfortable set of practices the JW can relate to? It's also message is one JW's want to hear/believe - 'our prophesy is coming true, see how worthwhile the years of privation have all been!
Hitching a ride of the hopefulness and self-rightiousness of our ancestors?
Edited to add... you'll find this in the FAQ's
Open letter to Jehovah's Witnesses - 1st Feb 04
Over the past few days I have received literally dozens of e-mails from Jehovah's Witnesses. I apologise for not having had the time to reply to every message personally and hope that this open letter will answer the majority of issues raised.It seems that there are many similarities between Formulists and Jehovah's Witnesses, including our political neutrality, pacifism, rejection of nationalism and respect for the unborn. Whilst I concede that Jehovah's Witnesses do not engage in many of the things that make most religions so destructive, it would be impossible to isolate a single religion without appearing to endorse it. Besides, the existence of a relatively small sect, however seemingly blameless, cannot justify the existence of religion in general.
... and it goes on...
Take care, max
-
24
The Turning Sword in Genesis
by Ariell ingenesis 3: 24 - and so he drove the man out and posted at the east of the garden of eden the cherubs and the flaming blade of a sword that was turning itself continually to guard the way to the tree of life.
correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't man create the sword?
what was god doing with a blade in heaven?
-
-
Max Divergent
ok, does the bible ever mention this sword being removed from service??
I don't know, but I think the tradition is that it was spinning away until the flood.